Comments

Murphed — 10 Comments

  1. you’re wrong about license plates.

    It’s requiring people to carry their papers. Why should I have to show my papers when i’m minding own business, not breaking the law, at a stop light?

  2. I believe that a legal person should, at all times be willing and able to identify themselves in a civil society.

    If you’re not doing anything wrong you have no worries, and if the government/police are criminal, and abuse their power, then this discussion is really just academic isn’t it?

    None of us are safe, no matter what the rules, and we must work to get rid of the unjust officials.

    I believe our current government abuses it’s power, but I believe the government rightfully has that power.

    Besides, we all carry our “papers” all the time now, in the form of our driver license.

  3. so, you’d have no problem being required to wear a number while you walk around on in public parks or on sidewalks? You have no problem with cops stopping you (for no good reason) and asking you for “ihre papiere”?

    It’s true that government abuses its power but that’s no excuse to make it easier for government to abuse its power. License plates make it easier for government to violate your privacy with an unreasonable search.

    It is true that we all carry drivers licenses, but even that is something the cops shouldn’t be able to view without some sort of reasonable suspicion or probable cause. License plates are worse than that. i would also argue that such licenses are also an unnecessary abuse of government power. So, you can’t really justify a bad policy with another bad policy.

  4. I believe that if the governing authorities would punish
    crime justly there would be little need for surveillance, but since the
    lawyers have made an industry of crime and “punishment”, a police state
    is the unfortunate result.

    But don’t confuse my lamentation over the police state with a disdain for just governmental authority. Remember, the ultimate authority is God, (who is keeping a record of everything, and has your “number”).

    The governing authority is in the place of God, and has the right to keep a record of everything, up to and including a DNA database, which I’d assume you would be against, (perhaps until it solved a crime against you or one of your loved ones).

    No one has a right to anonymity. And I’ve only been asked for ID by the cops when there is a crime, or an alleged crime in the vicinity, (sometimes it’s even been me committing the crime)! But mostly I was innocent. I showed my ID, and did not think it an invasion of privacy. How can one have an expectation of privacy… when one is in public?

    Your worldview would be greatly improved with knowledge about God and the Bible.

  5. I’m ok with the current practice of taking DNA from violent criminals. But if someone is exonerated, his DNA should be removed from the record. Taking DNA from everyone is simply another violation of privacy. The need for reasonable suspicion is a proper bound on police power.

    “No one has a right to anonymity.” If i’m walking down the street minding my own business then the government has no right to bother me or to even know who i am. The problem is that you’re looking at it the wrong way. The government has no right to know that I even exist unless i’m breaking the law. So, yes i have a right to anonymity until i cross the line.

    I doubt your police-state supporting worldview is supported by the Bible. Are you going to back up your claim with scriptural evidence?

  6. You mention the constitution; a document that I contend has held influence
    over governance only because of Christian men and godly principles exercised by
    governing officials. It should be obvious at this point in our nation’s history
    that in spite of our constitution our governing officials are utterly corrupt
    criminals, apparently beyond the reach of Madison’s “checks and
    balances”.

    But I certainly appreciate you bringing up the Bible..

    When God instituted human government he granted the government the right to execute murderers, He effectively
    authorized the governing authorities to assume power previously reserved only
    to God Himself, (Gen 4:15, Gen 9:6, Rom 13:4). God effectively gave men the
    authority to govern themselves. And with that authority God’s first requirement
    was that the governing authorities assure justice. God is the ultimate
    guarantor of justice, (Rom 12:19), but He endowed human government with that responsibility temporally.

    God knew Cain killed Abel. And later, when he executed Hophni & Phinehas
    (Judges 4:11), it was because he knew of their wickedness. I don’t believe the scripture indicates
    “omniscience” in the sense that God is paying His undivided attention
    to everything at all times. But I believe God is able to review all the data at
    any given time and discover the truth, (Luke 12:3, Eph 5:11). This is one of
    the reasons God can guarantee justice. He has ALL the facts, (and the power to
    impose His will according to the facts).

    The governing authorities are in the place of God. God has all the facts.
    The governing authorities are entitled to all the facts.

    God will never abuse his knowledge. Fallen men and governments will. We must accept the
    authority of government as ordained by God. And we must remove those officials who
    abuse that authority, but we must not call for removal of authority that God
    has put in place.

    In short, I have no problem with the government numbering me, or filming me, or recording my meta-data regarding all my public comings and goings as well as my use of infrastructure like satellites, phone lines, internet, (since God already has all that data, and logically would require the responsible authorities to have it as well). I have a problem with ungodly rulers abusing their just authority.

  7. i actually didn’t mention the constitution and it was you who brought up the Bible.

    It looks like your Biblical evidence is weak. I understand the Bible states that God authorizes governing authorities but you offer no evidence to support the idea that He authorizes governing authorities to know everything. It seems a bit absurd. Do you think government could put cameras in our homes (maybe like Orwell’s 1984) in order to know everything?

    God has all power so governments must have all power. Really? Is there no proper limit to what the government can do to know things?

  8. The principles you mentioned, (& worship) were from the constitution, and you said “I doubt your police-state supporting worldview is supported by the Bible.”

    I did back up my statements regarding governmental authority with biblical references. It’s just that you, being an unregenerate heathen, are incapable of understanding. You do not want any authority over you. And that’s why you will live alone, without God forever.

  9. You claim a Biblical worldview but your policy prescription is not backed up by the Bible. i don’t think any unbiased person can read your explanation and see where the Bible says governments have a right to know everything. i might be “an unregenerate heathen” but even such folks can reason based on evidence. Sadly, your evidence doesn’t support your conclusion.

  10. You may be correct in your analysis, as God certainly didn’t intend a surveillance state, so He never laid out the rules for one. He did give the governing authorities power over life and death & infrastructure, so their ability to would seem to me to fall into that authority.

    And the surveillance state is not “my policy prescription”. It’s the unavoidable result of our governing officials tolerating, regulating, and even profiting from crime & terrorism. Straighten out justice and the surveillance state could go away. Then this debate would be moot.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

HTML tags allowed in your comment: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>